Property Prices in France
May 20, 2010 by tony · Leave a Comment
With a stronger dollar and a weaker euro, interest in buying a home in France is strong. For me, having lived here for 20 years, it is obvious that France, especially Southern France, is the best place to live.
If you are thinking about buying property in France then the first question is – how much does property cost in France. A better question, perhaps is – how much do homes sell for in France.
All French property is sold and valued by the area of usable living space in the main house, not garages or utility rooms, but main rooms, bedrooms, living rooms etc. This is shown as the price per square meter, it does not include the land or outbuildings. This habitable area is very precise and will be shown on the legal documents, tax assessments and all paperwork for a property. All property in France is sold through a Notaire and this price is reported and the cost per square meter is calculated from actual sales made.
There are now a number of websites offering help for you to find the price of French real estate. I have written about pap.fr before they have search form you can identify the cost paid per square meter.
On Facebook today I discovered from a really good blogger PollyVousFrancais another really slick site http://www.meilleursagents.com/ – it even has a mobile app wher you can point your phone at some proeprties in France and get the price properties have sold for in that location.
It is important to stress that these are not valuation or even estimates of the price of a specific property in France – but aggregated figures on historical sales.
The two sites above are OK for a quick snapshot of price indication, but If you are thinking of buying property in France do some deeper research into trends from sites like….
Immoprix
Paris Notaires
National Institute of Statistics and Economic studies
Notexpert
Other sites good for researching data on properties and places in France include….
http://www.lescommunes.com/
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/FR/
The botom line is that any property is only worth what someone is prepare to pay for it – but don’t make the mistake of comparing prices in other countries with prices in France.
Pom Pom can get me into trouble
May 18, 2010 by tony · Leave a Comment
Soon after this post I am expecting a visit from some large men with sunglasses…..
We met and enjoyed lunch with an exceptional artist – now this is where I get into trouble on the Internet – he makes exquisite guns and I asked him to send me one, so he did, in the post.
I hasten to add, and I hope the security forces are reading this bit, is is a scale model of a Bofors anti-aircraft quad gun.
John Haynes is a world famous ship builder – his ships are wonderful scale models of the last 150 years of maritime history – his site is one of the most beautiful things I have seen for a long time https://www.johnrhaynes.com/index.html and (here we go again) the scale model of the 40mm Bofors gun is truly a work of art done by a master craftsman.
Museums and rich collectors own his ships and I strongly recommend a visit to his website – if I had the room (and money) I would cherish USS Gearing
Hope to blog tomorrow….be seeing you
A Plague Upon Their Houses
October 13, 2009 by tony · Leave a Comment
I had a mail from an associate asking about real-estate advertising websites and earning commissions – I have been deeply involved in this over the last ten years and have strong feelings about it.
In my blogs, I have been less than polite about realtors dealing in France, I have had some of these parasites threaten me with legal action – but I have also met a few, very few, (in fact one), gentleman I would recommend .
Here is a reply to an email today, it is at the end of a thread about realtors etc, but it has encouraged me to set out a little more clearly what I am trying to do – Vlad, if yo are reading this we must get this software sorted, if you don’t have time then Richard and Raj, please work with me to make this your next app !!
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Hi Steve,
My feeling is that real-estate dealing, and all aspects of property sales in France, is, at present, a “commoditised” business and is only attracting a rats-in-a-cage scenario. People will always make money out of selling what is to be sold, but, for-me, this is a bad/dead business.
As all property in France has to be sold through a Notiare, the value of an immobilier is zero – they do not act as true brokers, they do not assist either the buyer or seller, their only interest is to get a mandat and/or get a bon de visite and ensure an immoral level of commission for nothing – a plague on all of them and away with the scoundrels.
What is needed is a true brokerage service (buy it and resell it) or a true marketing/sourcing service (act for the buyer/seller) which clearly sets out the service offered and charges a fair price for the work.
However, to be able to offer any sort of viable and useful service in this area in France, a universal listing facility is needed and the corrupt and disgusting cartels done away with. Dream on.
I am working (too slowly) on software to scrap the useless listings of myriads of agents and simply give a complete “mashup” of all properties listed from existing Internet sources – then use techniques to identify these properties and give information about the seller/owner/agent dealing with it.
So in simple terms, anyone looking in a specific area or for a particular property can see, in one search, all properties, in detail, with full contact information, everything on the Internet which is relevant – this will represent about 80 percent of the relevant search criteria and be many mny times more relevant, efficient and time saving than trawling through the thousands of uninformative agency sites and for iPhone or Facebook would cost a user a very small amount. This concept is an “app” costing from zero to perhaps 4 euro. There are over 500,000 target clients for this.
OK, that is my aim – I cannot see any viability in any “new” listing site, only heartache and wasted time – those early Internet days are nearly gone.
Fractional Ownership is mostly marketed for the “almost” rich people who want a slice of something they cannot really afford – interestingly, in my opinion, it does have a place and is a good product and I would like to find the right marketing angle for this.
Without a license or correct registration, any commission you get on a sale is discretionary – 10 percent is the usual for a non-registered person, you can only do this two or three times with impunity – as an agent commercial I would demand 50 percent of the commission, most gave me 60 to 75 percent of their commission.
Lots to talk about
Nanocrystalline titanium dioxide photoelectrodes
September 27, 2009 by tony · 6 Comments
Titanium Dioxide – interesting stuff. Google tio2 and get a glimpse of what photovoltaic technology might be morphing into.
I am spending a quiet Sunday thinking about this as I was shown some interesting technology last week which is making me mull over some of the ‘indispensable’ things in our lives today. I see from my email that more people I already know write to me through Facebook than direct to my email address – more – the majority of these people are emailing me from their iphone or blackberry.
I have a problem with phones, I find it difficult, often impossible, to use one. I am happy to meet anyone any time anywhere – I have met and spoken to Princes, Dukes, gangsters and muggers – I have even argued with bank managers in their marble pleasure domes and enjoyed the experience – but, I cannot talk to people on the phone.
I liked my iphone as it could do most stuff without me actually having to speak to someone. Texting should be the answer, but I like the clunk and speed of a keyboard (as long as it is an Apple one) – I know I am a tiny minority (read stupid) there must be a word for phone phobia – just looked it up, it is called phone-phobia or telephobia, about 20,000 googlies) – so the melting together of technologies is great for me.
What I saw is a pocket sized solar powered Uninterrupted Power Supply – this would energise a phone, laptop, kindle etc – although small, it has lithium batteries, so is not feather-weight. What i am sure is eveloving is just one product – basically a phone, with keyboard (laser projection perhaps) – all my applications and storage in a “cloud” – a screen which emulates a book, like the Kindle and a detachable cover which acts as a solar panel/collector/back up battery.
I doubt I will like speaking on phones though.
Paris is Planning for the Future
June 8, 2008 by Tony · Leave a Comment
A recent article in the Telegraph by Henry Samuel, announced Sarkozy’s ambition for a new Paris – President Nicolas Sarkozy of France has tasked a group of top architects, including Britain’s Richard Rogers, to dream up a Grand Paris to rival Greater London that could stretch as far as the Channel – Read the Full Article.
I find this very interesting and exciting – Paris is forced to be a small city, the peripherique is a beltway containing the posh and touristy bits inside and much of the real world outside. Public transport is absolutely brilliant inside the peripherique but poor to non-existent outside.
Over the next few months I am going to be spending a lot of time in Paris on some new projects, so the opportunities simply thinking and planning an initiative like this open up are perhaps those which come only rarely in a lifetime – watch this space.
Come Up and See Me Sometime
April 22, 2008 by Tony · Leave a Comment
I think the biggest pleasure in writing any blog like this , perhaps in writing anything, is getting feedback and comments from readers . A lot of my stuff is about our life and experiences in living in the South of France and the reasons why we moved from the UK nearly 20 years ago. Many of the things I say are replies to questions I get and I often publish these to help others.
When we moved to the Languedoc, we adapted a large rambling old ruin in the village of Nizas and to help pay some bills made two apartments for vacation rentals. Over the five years we did this we made a lot of new friends and we now plan do a similar thing with our home in Montblanc and expect this to be sorted out for next year, so book now.
Luckily a lot of readers do come to our area and some ask me for information, often about finding a home or starting a business – I am happy to do this, so if you are in Languedoc drop me a line.
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Dear Tony,
We were considering coming to your area this coming weekend…not quite decided yet, but if we do, would you be able to meet for a drink or something. Maybe we could pick your brain a bit, or just get to meet the person who has helped us a lot!
Also, if you can suggest a chambre d’hotes or a hotel in the area…
Best regards, Maryvonne
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Hello Maryvonne,
I would be delighted to meet when you are in the area – I suggest Pezenas on Saturday which is a big open market and if you have not been before you can discover the old medieval city.
Next year we plan to open our own guest house, but there are several excellent places near here to stay – in Pezenas there is..
Hotelde Vigniamont tell Rob and Tracy I recommended them (I may get a free drink)
or a smaller place is La Dordine both are in the old town and charming.
A bit further out, but very special is Le Couvent which is one of the best in France according to the Sunday Times.
My phone numbers are in my signature at the end of this mail – call me when you are nearby, I look forward to a coffee (or glass of wine at sundown) – what is left of my brain is happy to be picked.
Best wishes
Tony
French Estate Agents
March 21, 2008 by Tony · 2 Comments
In many countries, including America, the UK and Australia, if I want to buy a house I select a local agent I like and I ask them what properties they can offer in the areas I am interested and at the price I can afford. They check the requirements on a computer and in seconds can show me all the listed properties in those areas and in the price range I ask – not only that they can show me a Google map, satellite picture or possibly a Google drive past of the actual houses.
The estate-agent is confident I will deal with him, although they may be showing many properties listed which are signed to other agents, as the multi-listing-system shares this information throughout a total network and agents (generally) work together.
This open and comprehensive exposure has many advantages, the person selling knows their property is shown to it’s best advantage, photos and maps are freely exposed, prices asked are realistic, an overpriced property will easily be seen as one which compares unfavorably with neighbouring prices and prices will not be set under the fair and realistic market price as this can also be seen quickly by the owner. Agents in these countries earn a sales commission around 2 to 3 percent.
In France, getting information from most agents is like getting blood from a stone – this week, for a client, I have been requesting a very clear specification for a family home which must be within 15 minutes by foot from the center of Pezenas. Two agents I visited for them have point blank refused to tell me even roughly where the properties are – we have to sit in front of them – hear a lecture and then be accompanied on a visit from a prior appointment – seeing five properties a day this way from one agent is very hard and frustrating work. A day later two agents complained that the clients did not go back to them for more “appointments”, I had to tell them that the rubbish they had been showing had discouraged them to the point they did not wish to return to them – had they shown honest photos and told us where the properties were a lot of time would have been saved and they may still have had a chance to sell them a property.
Unlike the USA and UK etc – in France there is no central Multi Listing System – estate agents are concerned that buyers will go behind their backs to other agents – or even worse directly to the owners. In fairness there is some justification – commissions are usually over 6 percent (often double this or more) of the selling price so on an average sale in France the buyer and save from 15,000 euro on the advertised price – add to this the complication of the owner to have many non-exclusive contracts with many agents often all at different offering prices due to commission variations and an estate agent in France is not encouraged to even give a clue to which village a property is in, let alone the address.
It is all going to change – I am telling agents I can use search engines to find the other agents listing their listed properties and with clues and a compound of photos from these sites, use satellite maps combined with the government plans to get the exact address of all the properties in less time that wasted on one visit draws blank looks of total incomprehension from them.
Soon we can all use photosynth – http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/129 – to find anything from images we input and all agents depending on mystery, smoke and mirrors, they will have to rethink their function.
Meanwhile – if you know of a good family home, walking distance from the center of Pezenas, with a pool and under 400,000 euro – please contact me , I have a customer.
Building Costs in France
March 21, 2008 by Tony · 3 Comments
A useful site I have written about before is Batitel – unfortunately they charge a fixed subscription of 90 euro a year for their online service, while this is excellent value if you are a builder, it is pricey for someone wanting to check on building and material prices for building work in France.
If the is a big enough demand I could try to give you a service for specific pricing and estimates – any interest?
Plus Ca Change
I am back in England today. The reason is very exciting, for part of their school curriculum, my son Jack (age 13) has to do a week of “work experience”. As we live in the south of France in the middle of zillions of tons of grapes, most of his school friends will be doing something to do with wine, food, local commerce or perhaps tourism.
It is up to the parents to find a position for him and, as there was nothing in the regulations that this work experience has to be in France, I asked his older brother ( from my first marriage – it is a long story) if he could get approval in the place where he works.
This just happens to be the Renault Formula One racing car plant near Oxford. So for all next week Jack will be in the leading edge of motor racing technology, I think he is in the new aerodymanic reseach facility, wind tunnels and stuff – I don’t know if Alonso is there, but this is the most important time for the new F1 cars.
I am taking the opportunity to meet with some investment, design and technical people to get my new Internet community project moving. I have some spare time next week, so if you would like to meet for coffee and especially if you can be involved in my new project – please email me.
TheF1 season next year will be especially exciting now Jack has helped to make the cars (a little) – my eldest son has been working as a constructor for Renault for several years now and their cars and drivers were champions for two years in a row
I hear England were rubbish again in Rugby today – well at least the UK can show the world how to make racing cars, even the French have to make them with British experts.
Selling Property Shares in France
January 19, 2008 by Tony · 3 Comments
The hot topic at the moment seems to be buying and selling shares in French property. The usual French structure for this is a SCI (societe civile immobiliere) which is a simple company specifically designed so that two or more people can own shares in a freehold property. In fact most SCIs will be “Fractional Ownership” so there is nothing new in this.
Most SCIs are set up and owned by people who know each other , very often family groups – the advantages are important when applied to inheritance tax, wealth taxes and other matters affecting something which is very dear to the heart of every French person – their “patrimoine”, their cultural inheritance and nothing is closer to their hearts than land and property.
Here is an exchange of mail I had today which focuses on an important point in owning a property in a SCI.
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Dear Tony,
I’ve been following your website for some time and have just subscribed to your newsletter. I have the utmost respect for the care and thought you’ve put into the prospects for fractional share ownership of properties in France. You have no reason to respond to my question because I am not now looking for a fractional share property — but here goes.
I am perplexed. My husband and I own 50% of a property through an SCI. The other shareholders are another couple whom we’ve known for years. On our French accountant’s advice and to avoid the possibility of the SCI’s engaging in the rental of a furnished property, we have commodats formally filed which permits the right to possession of the property in one-year segments, changing mid-way through each year. My year starts in the annees impaires and the other woman’s right to possession starts in the annees impaires. We rent the property. The rental revenues and expenses of the property (other than mortgage) are paid by us as individuals, not the SCI.
We are relatively comfortable with this situation because the SCI is clearly not renting the furnished property — in fact,the SCI does not even own the furniture and never has.
However, recently our partners (co-shareholders) informed us that they would like to sell their share of the property and my husband and I are evaluating what to do. Previously, you seemed to be very wary of renting the property owned by an SCI in any way. Now, your new website does not seem to express such caution. I have been following your dialogue with Andy Sirkin and also don’t expect you to give me legal advice (I’m a lawyer myself anyway), but I would appreciate knowing your current thinking and also would appreciate your pointing me in the right direction.
My husband and I are specifically concerned that perhaps allowing our partners to put their shares in the property on the open market would preclude continuing to rent the property — which has been very important to keeping our expenses down and making our ownership of the property a non-frivolous venture. We are afraid that offering it for sale would make it appear more like a commercial venture rather than two couples who are friends sharing the property together despite the commodats (which are like common-law bailments in a legal sense)we have filed. We would undoubtedly file a new commodat substituting the new owner and sell the share of the personal property separately from the sale of the real property.
I’d really appreciate your current thinking on the matter and will promise not to rely on it if you would be so kind as to just give me your opinion and/or any direction to other expertise that you can suggest.
Thank you in advance for your response.
Lynda
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Hello Lynda,
Thank you for your mail and for your understanding that I am trying to make a little clearer some of the things which concern the owning and renting of property in France. I always recommend that people get proper legal and/or financial advice from insured professionals capable of answering these points.
Much of the misunderstanding and legal/taxation problems I see are mainly due to cultural and comprehension differences between the French and what they call the “anglo saxon” mentality. The way anything like this has to be done is the way that it is done in France.
My current understanding is that a SCI, if it is seen as a trading entity, will attract a lot of tax liabilities – my thoughts and understanding of this have not changed for several years.
The way you are using the SCI, for your own purposes, seems reasonable and it does not appear that the SCI is in fact “trading” – as long as the SCI is simply the way you share the ownership and as long as you openly declare to the French authorities and French revenue that this is what you do and who the owners are and as long as the income you derive personally is declared and taxes paid (this can be in your own country as long as there is a taxation agreement in place) then I believe this is OK.
My conversations with Andy Sirkin are focused on the implications of Fractional Ownership where the SCI is usually owned by another trading entity (a LLC or Homeowners Association in America or a Limited company in the UK for example) – this structure will make it more susceptible for the French authorities to consider the activity of the SCI as a commercial enterprise and they may see the overseas company as a device to avoid tax on share transfers, Inheritance tax and income taxes – if this is considered a “device” in this way then all hell could be let loose and big penalties incurred by the owners of the shares in the property.
Assuming that you do not wish to buy the other shares yourself (normally you have the right of first refusal), I do not see that the other half of the shares of the SCI being sold to other people will change the situation. Your partners will have to pay a transfer tax and Capital Gains Tax on the sale of the shares. You will still declare the ownership of the SCI to the authorities and maintain that it is a transparent, non trading company so there should be no problem.
The best person to get an opinion from is likely to be Andy Sirkin who is immersed in this specific question and has a wealth of experience in these matters (he is also a very nice and straightforward gentleman).
Hope this helps – do let me know how you get on as this may help others.
Best wishes
Tony