The Joule in the Crown
May 27, 2008
I am looking at using solar energy for power and heating, although after three days of heavy rain and dark grey sky this seems a bit remote. But I have a large, south facing, roof which needs replacing so, with grants available this is something to consider.
What interests me is how the specialists I am talking to can quote me over 1,000 euro a square meter for panels which I see for sale in the supermarket for 100 euro a square meter. There is an exhibition of Renewable Energy in Paris on June 19-21 which I plan to visit and learn more, but with all the information that I find on the Internet it surprises me that the local specialists demand, and probably get, such a huge margin for what is a very simple job. I can have a complete roof supplied and fitted for under 300 euro a square meter, with a ten year guarantee.
I welcome comments from anyone with recent experience of any alternative energy installation in the South of France or a similar region with a sun factor of 3 to 3.5 (I understand the UK is around 1.0 so is not so relevant)
A borehole may also be interesting, but I am not thinking of putting up a wind generator, anyone with a percussion rig near Montpellier should write to me.
Comment by Dan
Start slow the technology seems to be still be developing in the manufacture of solar panels projected breakthroughs may reduce the cost of panels significantly in near future…have you thought of using a solar hot water heater to start? Dan
Comment by Tony
Thank you Dan - I know you are right and I am sure prices will be falling constantly from now onwards - I do have to replace my roof so it seem obvious I should do this with solar tiles instead of a standard roof anyway.
I may be doing this myself so save money and lose a bit of weight at the same time
Comment by Ralph Kent
agree with dan. PV tiles are still a long way from being financially a smart move. payback time is generally 15-50 years, but of course they don’t last that long and there’s a huge amount of embedded energy in the manufacture process which means you’re -3 years worth of c02 footprint before you’ve even installed them. your best option is an evacuated tube dhw system - passive thermal hot water to pre-heat the water for your domestic hot water needs. payback estimated by the centre for alternative technology to be in the order of 1-3 years. better to do that and insulate the place very well when you do the roof than spend the cash on pv tiles at this stage. centre for alternative technologies website is very good and they will answer your specific questions if you email them.
Comment by Josee Allen
I have been told that any energy one makes has to be given to the power companies who then sell it back to you. Is this the usual french mismanagement or a fairy story?
Comment by Tony
Hi Josee
I am investigating options for all sorts of energy conservation and generation in France - with photo voltaic systems, the popular way is to sell surplus capacity to the electricity company, EDF, and then buy back from them, at a low rate, when you need more power than you generate (at night for example).
So far my figures indicate a positive cash-flow to people with this system - there are also grants and tax concessions for people installing pv systems so, although efficiency is in question and pay-back times seem long - overall this can be a positive exercise - it seems - keep reading to see how the facts turn out for me
Best wishes
Tony
Comment by Maryvonne Kutsch
Hey Tony!
Our restaurant has an abundance of sunlight beating on the roof and front door all day long. (except for the last three or so weeks!)
I am wondering if you could give me a few links for exploring the grants that might be available for installing solar panels, etc.(here in france of course)
It has been a dream of ours for awhile…
thanks,maryvonne
Comment by Tony
Couple of quick comments.
I was contemplating solar initiatives in the pyrenees property I own and one I might build. I got lost and then found in this quagmire but basically you should look at insulating your house as well as possible first as passive solar may be all you need until the middle of winter. (Reduce is the first item in the reduce, re-use and recycle mantra - for a reason I am told!) After all it is night time for a lot of the year and you want to keep what you can get for free.
Besides generating your own hot water, also look into generating electricity back into the grid to offset purchases of energy and perhaps deflecting the need to go nuclear as the GB government are going to do in desperation.
Good luck!
best wishes,
Shay
Comment by Ralph Kent
Just to give you some numbers on PV - Bill Dunster of ZedFactory is one of the leading architects researching in this area and he’s done calculations for the payback period in the UK. Given that tariffs and buyback rates are not dis-similar to France (and nothing like Germany’s 3x buyback rate) with PV you are still looking at a payback period, according to his calculations of 15-24 years for PV. As I and other have pointed out - solar hot water is a far more sensible approach, that and insulating your house well. PV has still a long way to go before I’d be looking to put any on my property. The report is here if you want to read it: http://www.zedfactory.com/pdf%20downloads/UK%20tarif%20pv%20payback.pdf