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	<title>Comments on: What the French Republic could learn from Zoology</title>
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	<link>http://www.twiku.com/2008/02/28/what-the-french-republic-could-learn-from-zoology/</link>
	<description>From a day, to a lifetime - A personal view from a Mediterranean village in France</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.twiku.com/2008/02/28/what-the-french-republic-could-learn-from-zoology/#comment-607</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 08:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twiku.com/2008/02/28/what-the-french-republic-could-learn-from-zoology/#comment-607</guid>
		<description>Keeping the comments going - this reply from "R" to "Sam" came to me by email....

&gt;&gt;&gt;
Thanks Sam

Very good but – as a foreigner having done ALL I was told to do – this is the position I am in.

So maybe I shouldn’t have started here in the first place but this humble hack merely did what the papers and booklets told him to and got stuffed.  Even my accountant didn’t warn me.

My point that it hardly encourages enterprise, I think stands.

Sadly my offer of a few days in jail wont work instead of paying – they will simply shut down my bank account – or so the nice Christine from RSI Paris tells me.

It is all a bit unpleasant and encourages me to do the sensible thing – stop working!

R
&gt;&gt;&gt;

===

R - You are right, I have never ever in 20 years living in France found any "professional" who would offer advice without being asked the right question and none who would suggest anything without being asked - the point is if you know the right question, you rarely need the advice - this part of the "cat and mouse" of French Kulchur is simply a fact of life in France.

The French have been brought up and educated in fear and dread of "big brother", perhaps the original was a tall fellow with a big nose and waving arms who pulled a scruffy tired population together in the 1950s and was famous for saying "non", this was perhaps a necessary evil, unlike the foul mouthed libidinous political caracature of today - I digress...

R, I really feel for you , if you read a chapter in Helena's excellent book "More French Please We're British"  -

&lt;a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1903933560?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=lifeandlivini-21&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=1634&#038;creative=6738&#038;creativeASIN=1903933560" rel="nofollow"&gt;More France Please, We're British!: 15 Lessons on Life in France&lt;/a&gt;&lt;img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.co.uk/e/ir?t=lifeandlivini-21&#038;l=as2&#038;o=2&#038;a=1903933560" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" /&gt;

- it is about the misery Carole and I experienced at the hands of the tax police, all totally mysterious to us and our misery when we saw the grey suited grey men who claimed to be our "defence accountants" turn their back on us.

This experience cured me of anything to do with French accounting and French banking systems to the point I wil not enter a bank in France now. The end result of eighteen months of this misery was we were innocent, but it cost us over 20,000 euro because I never kept reciepts for 30 years  (which everyone knows you do in France).

That is the point, everyone "knows" the problems exist and do not need to know the details - so they keep their heads down - it is like the road signs, they see no point in telling you how to get to the next town as everyone knows where that is, so they tell you of interesting far-off places.

Dont let the bastards grind you down, a lot of non French are standing for the local elections - my son is more French than the President of France - so one day it will be a fair and just nation (yeah right) - but it is still, in my opinion, the best place in the world to live.

Tony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keeping the comments going - this reply from &#8220;R&#8221; to &#8220;Sam&#8221; came to me by email&#8230;.</p>
<p>>>><br />
Thanks Sam</p>
<p>Very good but – as a foreigner having done ALL I was told to do – this is the position I am in.</p>
<p>So maybe I shouldn’t have started here in the first place but this humble hack merely did what the papers and booklets told him to and got stuffed.  Even my accountant didn’t warn me.</p>
<p>My point that it hardly encourages enterprise, I think stands.</p>
<p>Sadly my offer of a few days in jail wont work instead of paying – they will simply shut down my bank account – or so the nice Christine from RSI Paris tells me.</p>
<p>It is all a bit unpleasant and encourages me to do the sensible thing – stop working!</p>
<p>R<br />
>>></p>
<p>===</p>
<p>R - You are right, I have never ever in 20 years living in France found any &#8220;professional&#8221; who would offer advice without being asked the right question and none who would suggest anything without being asked - the point is if you know the right question, you rarely need the advice - this part of the &#8220;cat and mouse&#8221; of French Kulchur is simply a fact of life in France.</p>
<p>The French have been brought up and educated in fear and dread of &#8220;big brother&#8221;, perhaps the original was a tall fellow with a big nose and waving arms who pulled a scruffy tired population together in the 1950s and was famous for saying &#8220;non&#8221;, this was perhaps a necessary evil, unlike the foul mouthed libidinous political caracature of today - I digress&#8230;</p>
<p>R, I really feel for you , if you read a chapter in Helena&#8217;s excellent book &#8220;More French Please We&#8217;re British&#8221;  -</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1903933560?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=lifeandlivini-21&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=1634&#038;creative=6738&#038;creativeASIN=1903933560" rel="nofollow">More France Please, We&#8217;re British!: 15 Lessons on Life in France</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.co.uk/e/ir?t=lifeandlivini-21&#038;l=as2&#038;o=2&#038;a=1903933560" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" /></p>
<p>- it is about the misery Carole and I experienced at the hands of the tax police, all totally mysterious to us and our misery when we saw the grey suited grey men who claimed to be our &#8220;defence accountants&#8221; turn their back on us.</p>
<p>This experience cured me of anything to do with French accounting and French banking systems to the point I wil not enter a bank in France now. The end result of eighteen months of this misery was we were innocent, but it cost us over 20,000 euro because I never kept reciepts for 30 years  (which everyone knows you do in France).</p>
<p>That is the point, everyone &#8220;knows&#8221; the problems exist and do not need to know the details - so they keep their heads down - it is like the road signs, they see no point in telling you how to get to the next town as everyone knows where that is, so they tell you of interesting far-off places.</p>
<p>Dont let the bastards grind you down, a lot of non French are standing for the local elections - my son is more French than the President of France - so one day it will be a fair and just nation (yeah right) - but it is still, in my opinion, the best place in the world to live.</p>
<p>Tony</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.twiku.com/2008/02/28/what-the-french-republic-could-learn-from-zoology/#comment-588</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.twiku.com/2008/02/28/what-the-french-republic-could-learn-from-zoology/#comment-588</guid>
		<description>Here is a comment to this I got by email - some interesting points - but my experience is that once you start getting into "the system"  - you pay a minimum (fairly high) forfait rate for two years, so they get you anyway

===

On first glance, it looks like several mistakes have been made here.  First, the income has been declared in its entirety - whereas business expenses of at least 35% should have been deducted... see the tax office and use a PO1 to sort this... also the statut has not been carefully sorted as not all journalists/writers fall under the auspices of URSAF and many can be dealt with by Agessa (a cheaper regime) and lastly, in the face of huge bills like this you should ask URSSAF for la prise en charge par la commission d'action sociale citing low income etc.  The reason the charges are so high is probably that this income has been treated as a supplement to another full time income.
 
I agree that all this is hideously complicated, and not at all easy to sort.  I also agree that finding the correct information is not easy.  I suggest starting to track down the information at the ANPE, the Chambre de Commerce, the various financial and tax advisors that advertise in the xpat press etc... do not contact me as I don't have the time or the expertise to unravel individual problems.  I'm just a humble hack after all.
 
Furthermore in this case it sounds as if the charges have been paid, so there is no rememdy this time round.
 
One last thought: in order to be declared and legal, signed sealed and delivered, for just less than 50% of gross earnings and no hassle at all try googling "portage salarial".  This system is brilliant for those who are sick of struggling with the French system, want to be declared and don't want to be bothered doing forms themselves.
 
Best of luck to all...
 
Sam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a comment to this I got by email - some interesting points - but my experience is that once you start getting into &#8220;the system&#8221;  - you pay a minimum (fairly high) forfait rate for two years, so they get you anyway</p>
<p>===</p>
<p>On first glance, it looks like several mistakes have been made here.  First, the income has been declared in its entirety - whereas business expenses of at least 35% should have been deducted&#8230; see the tax office and use a PO1 to sort this&#8230; also the statut has not been carefully sorted as not all journalists/writers fall under the auspices of URSAF and many can be dealt with by Agessa (a cheaper regime) and lastly, in the face of huge bills like this you should ask URSSAF for la prise en charge par la commission d&#8217;action sociale citing low income etc.  The reason the charges are so high is probably that this income has been treated as a supplement to another full time income.</p>
<p>I agree that all this is hideously complicated, and not at all easy to sort.  I also agree that finding the correct information is not easy.  I suggest starting to track down the information at the ANPE, the Chambre de Commerce, the various financial and tax advisors that advertise in the xpat press etc&#8230; do not contact me as I don&#8217;t have the time or the expertise to unravel individual problems.  I&#8217;m just a humble hack after all.</p>
<p>Furthermore in this case it sounds as if the charges have been paid, so there is no rememdy this time round.</p>
<p>One last thought: in order to be declared and legal, signed sealed and delivered, for just less than 50% of gross earnings and no hassle at all try googling &#8220;portage salarial&#8221;.  This system is brilliant for those who are sick of struggling with the French system, want to be declared and don&#8217;t want to be bothered doing forms themselves.</p>
<p>Best of luck to all&#8230;</p>
<p>Sam</p>
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		<title>By: What the French Republic could learn from Zoology &#124; New Bricks and Pantiles</title>
		<link>http://www.twiku.com/2008/02/28/what-the-french-republic-could-learn-from-zoology/#comment-587</link>
		<dc:creator>What the French Republic could learn from Zoology &#124; New Bricks and Pantiles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
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